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RE: hornet juice question |
ramster
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: 25.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 06:43 |
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11 g carb x 4 cal per gram = 44 calroies
3.7 g prot x 4 cal per gram = 14.8 calories
44 = 14.8 = 58.8 calories
the package says 80 calories, is this how they add in new zealand?
t
Now reading Daniel's Running Formula,
Mastering the Grill: The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking by Andrew Schloss, David Joachim, and Alison Miksch
Next Race
Tupper Lake Tinman, Lake Placid, NY
Kia Kaha |
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RE: hornet juice question |
moonpie
Member
Posts: 1234
Location: 10 mins ahead of Brett, 19 mins ahead of Jetsack
Joined: 09.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 08:02 |
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--
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
- Aristotle
Blog:
http://moonpie.org/triblog |
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RE: hornet juice question |
ramster
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: 25.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 08:33 |
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on sunday, i had some hornet juice at 4am, along with a cup of soy and a half cup of oats and 1/4 cip blueberries. at 6 am i drank a can of coke. i felt great for the first 50 miles.
at the 50 mile rest stop on my century, i had one dose of hornet juice mixed with gatorade. the next 25 miles were the hardest riding i have had in recent memory.
at the 75 mile rest stop i had a good humor toasted almond ice cream bar, no hornet juice, and felt strong throught the hills on the remaining 25 miles.
draw your own conclusions...
t
Now reading Daniel's Running Formula,
Mastering the Grill: The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking by Andrew Schloss, David Joachim, and Alison Miksch
Next Race
Tupper Lake Tinman, Lake Placid, NY
Kia Kaha |
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RE: hornet juice question |
Texafornia
Administrator
Posts: 2128
Location: 9 minutes ahead of Jetpack
Joined: 24.01.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 13:32 |
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sure. you had plenty of go juice on the first 50 and you overdid it. and once you drink a coke, you absolutely cannot stop because it has the worst kind of sugar (makes you crash quick) and it's caffeine also burns up everything in your system.
You coulda done an 8 ball of crack at mile 50 and still had a hard next 25.
Have you ever wondered why Coke comes with a smile? It’s because it gets you high. They took the cocaine out almost a hundred years ago. You know why? It was redundant.
* In The First 10 minutes: 10 teaspoons of sugar hit your system. (100% of your recommended daily intake.) You don’t immediately vomit from the overwhelming sweetness because phosphoric acid cuts the flavor allowing you to keep it down.
* 20 minutes: Your blood sugar spikes, causing an insulin burst. Your liver responds to this by turning any sugar it can get its hands on into fat. (There’s plenty of that at this particular moment)
* 40 minutes: Caffeine absorption is complete. Your pupils dilate, your blood pressure rises, as a response your livers dumps more sugar into your bloodstream. The adenosine receptors in your brain are now blocked preventing drowsiness.
* 45 minutes: Your body ups your dopamine production stimulating the pleasure centers of your brain. This is physically the same way heroin works, by the way.
* >60 minutes: The phosphoric acid binds calcium, magnesium and zinc in your lower intestine, providing a further boost in metabolism. This is compounded by high doses of sugar and artificial sweeteners also increasing the urinary excretion of calcium.
* >60 Minutes: The caffeine’s diuretic properties come into play. (It makes you have to pee.) It is now assured that you’ll evacuate the bonded calcium, magnesium and zinc that was headed to your bones as well as sodium, electrolyte and water.
* >60 minutes: As the rave inside of you dies down you’ll start to have a sugar crash. You may become irritable and/or sluggish. You’ve also now, literally, pissed away all the water that was in the Coke. But not before infusing it with valuable nutrients your body could have used for things like even having the ability to hydrate your system or build strong bones and teeth.
This will all be followed by a caffeine crash in the next few hours. (As little as two if you’re a smoker.) But, hey, have another Coke, it’ll make you feel better.
Especially since the only other fuel you took on was a serving of gatorade? You need way more food than that after 50 miles of riding.
You had an insurmountable self induced low spot for 25 miles and then recovered nicely after the coke-crash wore off.
The Hornet Juice probably helped you overcome that low to keep riding strong later.
Unless soy milk has no protein (which it does) and you started riding within an hour of drinking the hornet juice (at 5 am?) then that first dose was completely negated. So, you essentially only had one dose during that whole ride AND it was after a coke crash.
I'd say that experiment was not ideal at all.
Try drinking it at the start of your ride, but only if you haven't had protein in the last couple of hours. Drink one serving every hour on top of a steady diet of gatorade and goo and other balanced stuff.
It's all in the instructions. 
"Hunger is Ugly leaving the body" - Ancient supermodel proverb
Workout Log - http://workoutlog.com/log/public/Texafornia/log.cfm
Edited by Texafornia on 05-22-2007 13:35 |
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RE: hornet juice question |
Jetpack
Member
Posts: 845
Location: That guy that whooped TX butt @ Wildflower
Joined: 15.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 14:07 |
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YO-
Back from Ride #1 on HJ for operation AFTERBURNER. Here's the skinny. This was a total "getting to know you" ride on HJ. I wasn't about to go nutz and start downing this stuff like mad on the 1st time out. Woke up at 7am. Ate a PB&J and some sliced fruit. Had my morning coffee.
This ride was a zone 1, easy paced ride. I kept the HR hovering around 120. My lactate threshold is 178. My functional threshold in watts is 231.
My hamstring is still recovering from Wildflower so this easy pace ride was planned. I downed 1 packet of HJ with 8 ounces of water 20 mins prior to the ride. All of you are right, it tastes like crap. On the bike I brought a bottle of water and a bottle of gatorade.
Kelley and I hit the streets at 9:45am. She peeled off and had to go home for work 30 mins in. I kept on. In the end I'd say I felt good but by no means an appreciable difference in feeling or performance...yet.
The next ride, I'm going to consume another packet 1 hr into the bike, all else being the same. What I am interested in, is the claim that this helps you burn the fat faster and more effeciently as a source of energy rather than sucking the glycogen right out of you.
Therefore I should see a good drop in my percentage of body fat over the next two months. 165lbs @ 12% = 18lbs of fat. So I've got some reserves to work with. Let's see if the HJ burns it out of me.
---------------
Distance - 31.25 miles.
watts max - 384
watts avg - 110
speed max - 24
speed avg - 16.6
time - 1:53:00
cadence avg - 87
joules - 745
HR avg - 117
*1 HJ packet
*1 Gatorade bottle
*1 Water bottle.
----------------
-Jet
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RE: hornet juice question |
Neapolitan Burn
Member
Posts: 1531
Location: Newcaliyorkia
Joined: 16.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 14:50 |
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Jetpack wrote:
What I am interested in, is the claim that this helps you burn the fat faster and more effeciently as a source of energy rather than sucking the glycogen right out of you.
Therefore I should see a good drop in my percentage of body fat over the next two months. 165lbs @ 12% = 18lbs of fat.
-Jet
Hey multi-factor analysis boy,
I'm not even going to go into how many things will affect a drop in body percentage over the next two months other than HJ.
I do question the claim stated above about it helping you to burn fat faster and more efficiently, so the difference I would surmise has nothing to do with long term fat loss Mr. Jet"Six"Pack, rather the implication is that the HJ causes you to spare glycogen stores.
So the way to test this would be to get Brett Sack (the new Benifer) back on the treadmill for a test to see if there is an initial jump in lactate production and even if there is, if that increase is less than when previously tested without the purified glue and if the rise in lactate production and anaerobic metabolism occurs more gradually or over an extended period of time when compared to your previous test. Essentially, were you able to push back AT simply through an increased efficiency of fat catabolism.
I'm just saying...
No offense meant to the whole hornet juice contingent, because I haven't seen a good test, but I would indeed be interested in seeing what the results are.
- Adam
www.racewithpurpose.org/coachadam
if you'd rather eat egg and cheese on a roll in peace, then you're going to get fat, you'll have no energy, and your knee will hurt. |
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RE: hornet juice question |
Jetpack
Member
Posts: 845
Location: That guy that whooped TX butt @ Wildflower
Joined: 15.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 15:34 |
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Hey multi-factor analysis boy,
I'm not even going to go into how many things will affect a drop in body percentage over the next two months other than HJ.
Coach - I gotta slightly disagree with you on this one. This is why. I have been at that weight and body fat percentage for a good 6 months now. My exercise level has remained very contstant. My input (food) is pretty much consistent as well as my output (swimming biking running and under the sheets activities  )
If I see a spike in weight loss or drop in body fat percentage, there's really not a whole hell of a lot to contribute that to given my present diet and level of exercise.
In fact if I go back to my FAA medicals that track every six months, I bet my weight has been steady for over a year. If I come back in two months and I'm down to 8% body fat from 12 in two months, "somethings" going. And all being equal, HJ is the new kid on the block in my diet.
What I'm really looking for is not just any type of loss in weight or drop in body fat. I looking for the "boost" in the way I feel and the ability to continue longer. Which is what Brett talks about.
This why people take stuff like carbopro, gu's, powerbars, gels, coke etc... It gives them that some certain "edge" then just sticking to the food groups. So this should do the same...supposedly.
So let me ask you. What type of weight loss or drop in body fat with regards to myself would cause you to raise an eyebrow? What things could you see contributing it.
-T
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RE: hornet juice question |
Neapolitan Burn
Member
Posts: 1531
Location: Newcaliyorkia
Joined: 16.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 16:28 |
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What I'm really looking for is the "boost" in the way I feel and the ability to continue longer. Which is what Brett talks about.
You and Brett apparently had a good time in that camper in Wildflower. I'll defer to SpecialK and Emily on the validity of your statement above.
As for a drop in weight, it can occur throughout your training at different times due to a number of factors and it usually does occur in a pattern of slight raises, then slight drop then plateau, then large drop, and then the cycle starts all over again.
Your training will have a cummulative effect and as you get closer to your cow tipping race, your emotions, stress levels and mental outlook may very well have associated physical manifestations, including a drop in body fat percentage or at a minimum a drop in body weight due to increased water loss retained in organs and lean body tissue. As you get closer to your race, SpecialK's stress level will also probably go up and your caloric expenditure may change again depending upon how happy or annoyed she is with you. These are real issues. I'm going to correlate your changes in body fat to the amount of time SpecialK spends on IronWidow.com. Now that would be a cool study.
I agree that the boost issue is a chemical reaction that may come from increased levels of sugar and corresponding increases in your body's ability to use them as fuel, but from what I read above, the biggest and most sustainable performance enhancement would be an increase in substrate efficiencies. I'm just interested in testing that.
- Adam
www.racewithpurpose.org/coachadam
if you'd rather eat egg and cheese on a roll in peace, then you're going to get fat, you'll have no energy, and your knee will hurt. |
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RE: hornet juice question |
TriTroy
Member
Posts: 159
Location: Newark, CA
Joined: 12.03.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 17:00 |
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Ok, how does HJ go with NUUN? Now that, is THE question....
TriTroy
Taking an airline flight? Check out http://www.avoiddelays.com/ |
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RE: hornet juice question |
trininja
Member
Posts: 161
Location: Tucson, AZ
Joined: 10.04.07 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:16 |
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NUNN Berry is da bomb!
"Everybody can't be in the parade, some folks have to sit on the curb and cheer"
Will Rogers |
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RE: hornet juice question |
trininja
Member
Posts: 161
Location: Tucson, AZ
Joined: 10.04.07 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:16 |
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er um, NUUN mixed with the HJ that is...
"Everybody can't be in the parade, some folks have to sit on the curb and cheer"
Will Rogers |
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RE: hornet juice question |
ramster
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: 25.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:18 |
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i guess i could piddle around with my own experiments designed to convince me the stuff works, but i really have some doubts at this point as to how such a tiny amount of amino acids could have any measurable effect.
i liek coach adam's idea of a treadmill lactate test, that would really give you somethign to hang your hat on.
maybe the hornet juice boys woudl liek to become ra sponsirs, get colorado multisports to hok you gusy up and put this to bed once and for all
t
Now reading Daniel's Running Formula,
Mastering the Grill: The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking by Andrew Schloss, David Joachim, and Alison Miksch
Next Race
Tupper Lake Tinman, Lake Placid, NY
Kia Kaha |
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RE: hornet juice question |
bryancd
Member
Posts: 884
Location: Fountain Hills, Arizona
Joined: 29.06.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:22 |
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Yes, Tyler, to the Coach you listen. Your analysis is flawed and the variables are far too many for you to draw any conclusions. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about the human physiology and internal nutritional breakdowns as Adam, but I am fast and very well trained and can say with some certainty your HJ is not going to burn fat off you. Your training will. You are going to be training through the summer in Florida for an IM. Geuss what? You are going to lose wieght. A lot. The leaner you become, the more your daily wieght is going to be based on dehydration or fluid retention. As Mike Ricci gets you into your build stage, you are going to lose body fat regardless. Your whole theory is silly, and I mean that in an "I love you like a brother, but really?!" kinda way
My advice, as a fast athlete to a soon to be fast athlete, would be to take the $ you are spending on this snake oil and buy yourself a 6 month supply of PowerGel's and Gatorade Endurance. Train with it every day and show up at IMWI with a simple, workable, and proven nutrition and hydration startegy. For what it's worth, brother  .
Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!!!!!
Edited by bryancd on 05-22-2007 18:41 |
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RE: hornet juice question |
ramster
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: 25.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:30 |
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Texafornia wrote:
Especially since the only other fuel you took on was a serving of gatorade? You need way more food than that after 50 miles of riding.
well yeah of course i had more calories than what i mentioned. a couple of power gels and a fig newton and maybe a liter of gatorade in the first 50 miles. a couple more gels, cheezits and fig newstons and about another 1.5 liters gatorade 50-75. besides the ice cream, some watermelon, and a snickers bars and another liter of gatorade for 75-100
i think i could make a strong case for the positive effects of dried blueberries in my oatmeal based on my day.
the real issue here is the 'information cascade' effect. its too easy, and too likely to produce an inaccurate reslut, when each person depends on the results of the person before them to come to a decision.
havign said that, like my doctors says about glucosmaine and chondroitin, all the good tests show it does nothing, but if it makes you feel good, do it
t
Now reading Daniel's Running Formula,
Mastering the Grill: The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking by Andrew Schloss, David Joachim, and Alison Miksch
Next Race
Tupper Lake Tinman, Lake Placid, NY
Kia Kaha |
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| Author |
RE: hornet juice question |
bryancd
Member
Posts: 884
Location: Fountain Hills, Arizona
Joined: 29.06.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 18:58 |
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In regards to what Brett said, yes, the Coke and the ice cream don't make for a high quality energy source, true. But to imply that HJ helped you overcome that low and ride stronger is just not based on any mediacal fact. Nor is it even remotely universally agreed that protien intake during excercise is beneficial or not. I personally do not take in any large amounts of protien during training or racing. A few good Gel's and a Cliff Bar, and depending on heat, 2-3 bottles of water and G.E. are all you need for a ride of 50-75 miles. Practice with that. I doubt they will be handing out this silly stuff on any race you do. Wouldn't you rather condition your body to go fast with stuff you can have for free on race day?
I just don't get why so many try and make this so complicated. Don't go down that road Ram and Tyler, it leads to the Dark Side....
..by the way, it's nice to FINALLY have a decent debate on triathlon related issues here. It's been a while. 
Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!!!!!
Edited by bryancd on 05-22-2007 18:59 |
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RE: hornet juice question |
ramster
Member
Posts: 1866
Joined: 25.02.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 19:03 |
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i dont know bryan, i am getting a weird feelign about this, because i think i agree with you
btw, regarding protein during workout, i think the convential wisdom says to take protein in with carbohydrates to slow their absorption. and i guess they say to drink a 4:1 mix of carb to protein to maximize carb and fluid absoroption, so there is apparently a place for protein
t
Now reading Daniel's Running Formula,
Mastering the Grill: The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking by Andrew Schloss, David Joachim, and Alison Miksch
Next Race
Tupper Lake Tinman, Lake Placid, NY
Kia Kaha
Edited by ramster on 05-22-2007 19:06 |
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RE: hornet juice question |
u352
Member
Posts: 187
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Joined: 29.03.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 19:27 |
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Before I did my open water swim workout tonite I held the HJ in my hand. I was afraid..... |
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RE: hornet juice question |
bryancd
Member
Posts: 884
Location: Fountain Hills, Arizona
Joined: 29.06.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 19:31 |
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I have heard both sides of the 4:1 debate. I agree that there is evidence that it can be beneficial and if NA Sports or the WTC were to switch to Acclerade on the course, I would follow suit. I feel very comfortable saying that the responses people are experiencing are a result of the introduction of a basic, healthy sugar carbohydrate into their training, one which can be found in any number of less costly places. I can also assure them that if they train with it, they will commit themselves to racing with it and that can lead to a lot of complications which they definately do not need. Anybody remember jdub's 70.3 California race where he dropped his special bottle of nutrition? Ruined his day. Learn, Padawan's!
Ramster, Glucosamine rocks my world too
Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!!!!!
Edited by bryancd on 05-22-2007 19:35 |
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RE: hornet juice question |
Gusano
Member
Posts: 305
Location: Houston, TX
Joined: 16.08.06 |
| Posted on 05-22-2007 19:33 |
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All I know is that a few weeks ago without HJ I competed in a sprint tri and my ITBand killed me and this past weekend WITH HJ in a sprint my ITBand was almost fully cured. This *$*% cures ITBS!!!!! |
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RE: hornet juice question |
TriDogHenry
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: 01.04.06 |
| Posted on 05-23-2007 04:27 |
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I was blind before lapping up a bowl of hornet juice and now I CAN SEE!!!!!!
Hornet Juice Cures Blindness by helping to lower blood pressure and reattaching detached retinas!!!!
Beware Triathletes, I am huge and to be feared! |
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